Film > Control > Press Conference January 2005

Press conference held at Peel Suite, Radisson Edwardian, 7 January 2005

At a time when the lead actor had not yet been cast, producer Todd Eckert explained the that they are "in dialogue with certain actors that you know" and that there is a "universally open field". They have some "specific ideas" of what they want and "would love a local actor". The producers Eckert and Orian are the only Americans involved in the film. Todd also stated that certain actors have been suggested, but that Deborah Curtis has turned them down. He acknowledged that it is a difficult job as the lead actor has to satisfy all those involved, remaining members of Joy Division / New Order and everyone who knew him. No actors that have been approached have turned them down.

Co-producer Tony Wilson said: "All music films invariably are shite. And the miracle of the last one, 24 Hour, was that as someone said in City Life, can you imagine all the way that it could've gone wrong. And it didn't." He added that "it was kind of a triumph that made it work and that is the challenge again and in some ways to me by involving Matt and by involving Anton I think Orian has gone a long way down the road to making sure that it's not the usual movie people fucking up music. It's so common and that's what happens so it's very nerve-wracking." He also pointed out that "Joy Division were not a Manchester band. They were actually half Salford, half Macclesfield."

Todd Eckert added: "Also I think Joy Division, the perception of the band is that were sort of the ultra-dark experience which is really sort of false or one-dimensional view of what Joy Division was. When the band existed it was quite anarchic, it was an electric experience so it's very important to us to capture what made them such a vital musical experience in the first place." He said everybody wanted to convey the honesty that was contained in 'Touching From A Distance'.

Writer Matt Greenhalgh said that "Ian is, for want of a better word, a god in this city. And to be actually undertaking to do a bio on him is probably every young Mancunian pop person's dream and I've been given that and I'm very very happy. The book is actually very brilliantly written, and there's a lot to live up to." In reference to the film's American producers quipped that "you get a feeling from the film industry in Britain that it's best to have someone with an accent like theirs".

Producer Orian explained that it was his idea to do the film and that he and Todd have spent the last 8 months awaiting Deborah and Natalie Curtis's trust.

Here is the rough production timetable (as pitched in January 2005):

Screenplay - end of February 2005
Casting - March/April 2005
Finance - Cannes Film Festival in May 2005
Pre-production - July 2005

[Actual production dates slipped substantially and principal photography was not until Summer 2006.]

On the music side, Tony Wilson wants Moby still, and now has the blessing of the producers despite him originally being regarded as a pariah due to his involvement in the rival production. They are approaching various other bands to do cover versions of Joy Division tunes for inclusion in the film. They will be given a song and just 'a couple of days' to record it. No bands that have been approached have turned it down.

Other snippets that emerged included the revelation that Ian Curtis was a Manchester City fan. Wilson didn't know this but it was confirmed by Deborah Curtis. Wilson's glad of Corbijn's involvement as he can finally get 'revenge' on Rob (Gretton). For years Wilson thought everybody hated the 'Atmosphere' video, but only found out last year that it was actually only Rob who hated it and that the rest 'loved it'. Malcolm McLaren has done a 'mix' of Joy Division's 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' and Captain & Tennille's 'Love Will Keep Us Together'. Wilson played it to the assembled at the press conference. Finally, Wilson maintains the favourite name for New Order (before New Order) was 'Happy Valley Dance Band'.

Transcript of press conference

The line-up with abbreviated names:
Todd Eckert (Producer): TE
Orian Williams (Producer): OW
Anton Corbijn (Director): AC
Matt Greenhalgh (Writer): MG
Deborah Curtis (Co-Producer): DC
Tony Wilson (Co-Producer): AHW

TE: "So we basically called the press conference because we wanted to introduce you to the principal people with the film. Anton found out last night that he would be our director. And we just can't imagine a better choice. His history with Joy Division is quite long term. In fact it may be better if he explained to you how he became a resident of England in the first place.

AC: "Well, as you probably gathered by my accent, I am not from England. I am Dutch. And when I was 24 [and the] NME was like the bible in Holland and Paul Morley's writing about events a lot and I was thinking of leaving Holland anyway and the Joy Division record made the decision made quicker. So I moved in October '79 to England to be close to where the news came from and actually within two weeks I'd managed to photograph Joy Division because my ideal and in a sense my move to England I always saw as my trip to unknown pleasures and now I've been here 25 years. So that's now twenty-five years ago. So I'm kind of circling round to be able to make a movie about good times for me and about Ian Curtis."

TE: "And here we are."

AC: "And here we are."

TE: "Similarly it was very important to us that we have a local writer because the subject is so deeply a Manchester / Macclesfield story. So as the idea that anybody who was not from this area it would be impossible for them to really do it justice. Matt was recommended to us by a friend of Orian's and myself and we feel he's also the perfect choice just because of his understanding, not only of the subject matter, but just what it is to be from Manchester, to be from this region, and as we've never actually asked him, how do you feel about being the writer?"

MG: "Well, the obvious answer is very proud, because Ian is, for want of a better word, a god in this city. And to be actually undertaking to do a bio on him is probably every young Mancunian pop person's dream and I've been given that and I'm very very happy. But I must y'know that you can read the book, and the book is actually very brilliantly written, and there's a lot to live up to. Deborah Curtis has fantastically worded and you get so many moments from the book that y'know it's gonna be a real challenge putting that on the page. But I'm sure it's a challenge that I can, y'know, live up to. There's a lot of people to please, a lot of people that know that scene inside out, the one at the end there (Tony Wilson), a few in New Order and obviously Deborah, that the book has to be to a certain to hit the right buttons. And I'm very aware of that so I'm looking forward to it, it's a challenge, and the guys in the middle y'know you get a feeling from the film industry in Britain that it's best to have someone with an accent like theirs."

TE: "I don't know if that's a universally shared point but I think clearly Deborah did make an astonishing book, as much for its honesty as for the fact that she did it in the first place. And, it's that sense of honesty that we're really bringing to the film. I think to her credit she has asked us to make the most honest film about Ian's life that we can. Which is another reason that besides Deborah being co-producer that we asked Tony to be another co-producer just because he is so much a heart and soul of the city and (to Wilson), this is the first time we've announced that you're a co-producer on this isn't it. [Wilson: "Yes"] And it's gonna be a very hands on film I think for all of us. It is such an emotional film and it's just we really have one shot to get this right and we're going to do absolutely everything in our power to make sure that that happens. And it's really with this assembled crew that we think that we will be able to do so. Beyond that, any questions? Yeah, any concerns??"

TE: "Casting will take place once Matt has finished the screenplay".

[short break for photo]

TE: "Truly Tony is a great part of the soul of Manchester then I think that Deborah is the soul of this film, because it really did start with the honesty of which she was capable and writing 'Touching From A Distance' in first place. If you've not read it it's astonishing and absolutely required reading."

Question: "Do you have a working title?"

TE: "Well we've had 18 working titles so far, but actually Anton I think has struck upon something of genius"

AC: "Not being English I like simple, so I thought the word 'Control'"

AHW: "You have to remember that when Joy Division ceased there were 18 names for the new band that were to replace it, that became New Order, and for about 4 months the leading name was 'Happy Valley Dance Band', so you have to watch for names but 'Control' is fantastic.

Question: "What's the thinking behind that? Can you elaborate on 'Control'"

AC: "Well it's an obvious reference to the song 'She's Lost Control' and also I think that Ian was somebody who wanted to control his life, his immediate surroundings and his destiny. And there was of course the other element of his life that he couldn't control, the epilepsy and the attacks I think are quite including aspects."

AHW: "Can I say that what's really peculiar having worked on the other film is the risk one takes because film people, movie people by and large when they touch our world of music fuck up. All music films invariably are shite, with the exception of ones that come from an askance point of view. So for example 'Easy Rider' or 'Performance' are great music films but as soon as someone famous tries to do music, however clever it is, something's always terribly wrong. And the miracle of the last one, 24 Hour, was that as someone said in City Life, can you imagine all the way that it could've gone wrong. And it didn't. So that was kind of a triumph that made it work and that is the challenge again and in some ways to me by involving Matt and by involving Anton I think Orian has gone a long way down the road to making sure that it's not the usual movie people fucking up music. It's so common and that's what happens so it's very nerve-wracking."

TE: "Also I think Joy Division, the perception of the band is that were sort of the ultra-dark experience which is really sort of false or one-dimensional view of what Joy Division was. When the band existed it was quite anarchic, it was an electric experience so it's very important to us to capture what made them such a vital musical experience in the first place and I think that's gonna be a big part of what we try to achieve."

Question: "Can you talk us through the process of you coming together as a group. Tony, were you involved at the inception here?"

AHW: "I don't whether Todd minds this but we probably should mention this as a news story, the background and the background is that Double A Films, a New York film company three years ago approached Debbie and optioned the book to make this film. This was shortly after '24 Hour' had gone into production. And Double A Films are most famous for the Ethan Hawke 'Hamlet' and at some point, and you'll have to ask Debbie about this, it all went wrong about a year ago. They did not take up the option and [it all] fell apart. Just as it was falling apart they've decided to appoint their line producer who was the American working in London who was a close personal friend of mine. And he was so pleased because he loves Manchester, he produced the King Lear in Liverpool for Sky Movies about a year ago, starring was it Richard Harris? So this guy Neil was doing the film and his line producer was terribly pleased and he suddenly discovered that the movie he was working on as line producer no longer existed. Double A Films no longer existed, the option no longer existed and someone else was doing it. Neil (Weisman) is an excitable chap [and at Cannes Film Festival which he goes to every year] he decided fuck and he announced he was still working on it, y'know sod it and rang me up to say, to ask my advice, could he make the film without the band's permission and I said well I'm not sure, it would depend on the BMG and Zomba publishing contracts on the publishing contract, but it's pretty pointless. Then, at the beginning of the summer I had a conversation with Debbie, Todd and Orian. I said to Neil you need to apologise to Debbie for the trouble you've caused and say if these other people fall through I would love to help you. So, instead of doing that, Neil being a complete bloody tosser, kept making trouble and said 'I wanna make the film, I wanna make the film' with no permission, blah blah blah, and the last I heard, when I got back from my South American trip in November, I had a message from Neil saying please ring me. I rang Neil because he's my friend and he said I want to ask your advice about this. I said Neil, I'm working with Debbie and with Todd, I'm not with you and you really are behaving like a tosser and, er, he put the phone down. That is the last I talked to Neil and that is the last we've heard from Neil.

TE: "Yesterday, through, shall we say, some of the rights that are necessary to make this film, we found out that it would be logistically impossible for him to do something."

AHW: "Yes it is and I told him that. So anyway that's out of the way. It caused a fuss. It was quite interesting

Question: "So you guys know each other?"

AHW: "Yes, I was introduced about 4 or 5 months ago by Debbie and Natalie."

TE: "Orian and I have known each other about 20 years and originally the idea to put together the film was his. In the process of getting to know Debbie and Natalie it was really an 8-month process. Basically I think Debbie was deciding whether or not she trusted us. I guess to some degree, because of her earlier experience, but I think much more because she recognises that that the film about Ian's life is really the artefact, it's the document through which people will know Ian and his life and for a generation coming up now Joy Division is sort of an insanely relevant band but they don't necessarilty know the history. So you basically have one shot to do this right so naturally she was distrustful of anybody trying to make the film and certainly a couple of Americans. So, through an 8-month period of discussions I guess she came to the conclusion that hearts were not only in the right place but that I guess we had the financial wherewithal to actually make the damn thing."

Orian Williams: "I met Anton about three years ago, well two and a half years ago and always had an idea that he should be directing movies or involved in them because of that inspiration of his but never the right, I guess, project came along. And it was about a year ago we were sitting having lunch in Los Angeles and we started going through the story of how he made this pilgrimage to London to take photographs of Joy Division. By the end of the lunch we had decided that he was pretty much the only guy who could direct the film. He was there, his sensitivity to the visual side of the entire story as well as the narrative and we talked about it for a long time."

TE: "I mean so much of the film has a certain fortuity really, you know, just in meeting with directors and writers, and I think, well, the first and most fortuitous bit was finding Matt, simply because finding the right person you need to put this film together, actually write it down, was excruciatingly difficult. And we had met with several writers and he sent us, I guess, 'Burn It' and a couple of other screenplays and we read them and was it three days later? No, it was actually funny because Orian and I had been here in Manchester, working with Tony and Debbie, and I literally had to, after we read all of this stuff, come back again four days later. All the way to Manchester so we could offer him the film."

AHW: "Can I ask a question? I'm a massive Red fan and you're part of the Red stable, were

AHW: "Joy Division were not a Manchester band. They were actually half Salford, half Macclesfield. Not Manchester. Manchester takes all the fucking credit and is basically a shithole. It's all about Salford and Macclesfield"

TE: "And, er, that's exactly how we feel too!"

Question: "Do you have a working timetable, casting actors, starting shooting, that sort of thing?"

TE: "We do. We anticipate that Matt will be done with the screenplay by this weekend [loud laughs]. We anticipate February that he will be done with the screenplay."

AHW: "What!? You're kidding."

MG: "Well, a first draft."

TE: "We're not anticipating that we're actually going to need a second draft. We'll cast up in April. We will finance the film at Cannes in May and probably be in some sort of pre-production by July. So I guess by July you will see Orian and myself on the streets far more frequently because we will be living here.

Question: [inaudible, about casting]

TE: "We have some very specific ideas, none of which we can reveal. Sorry. We're actually in dialogue with several actors. Actors that you know. As it turns out, we're not necessarily in dialogue with their agents. So it would be financially disastrous for us to reveal anyone's name. I'm sorry.

Question: "Does the Manchester involvement stretch to who might play Ian?"

TE: "Well I mean the ultimate litmus test is really Debbie, Anton, Tony and all the people that knew him. We've had some actors in mind and they were struck down because Debbie said no, it doesn't work. So, you know, clearly it's going to have to be someone who is more or less capable of channelling Ian. And again we've actually, well it's turned out to be a universally open field as far as what actors are available. You would be shocked as to the prevalence of Joy Division within the acting community. Absolutely everyone in the world seems to want to have a role in this film. So, we haven't spoken to anyone who has said they're not interested."

Question: "Is there a likelihood that a Briton or a Mancunian might play this role?"

AC: "Or a Dutch actor!?"

TE: "Well I mean our first choice was Anton but he said that I'd rather direct! We would love it to be a local actor. Whether that will take place or not I don't know. I think it's, er, I'm not going to say anything else. I'll get in trouble!"

Question: "How difficult will it be to shoot the film?"

AHW: "Well consider we're talking about 1978-1981 and considering how big the Hacienda was and how incredible the job of recreation was, although for 24 Hour it did mean that they did a shitty job on our offices. They put all the effort into the Hacienda and none into the office. They need to recreate, maybe, the room that was on this space here. Which in fact was in fact was still in existence for 24 Hour, which is the Lesser Free Trade Hall, which is, partially, where it all began. Those are not difficult to recreate. It is just quite easy.

TE: "With the exception of some second unit location stuff, you know London maybe when they were recording Closer and what have you."

AHW: "What about some of the trips abroad, in the Sherpa vans that they used to have to drive?"

TE: "There will be a bit of that but it will be predominantly shot here. Again, in fact we were talking about it last night, with the exception of ourselves there probably won't be any other Americans involved on the film at all."

Question: "Have you already got ideas for the soundtrack?" [to MG]

MG: "Not on this one at all. No I mean really on this one it's all in the foreground in the film but as far the script's concerned I've got to really stick with the drama. You know, the music and the drama will mix and it's inevitable in a rock bio but at the moment it's definitely stick to the book and stick to the drama moments, get them on paper first and probably lay the tracks on, and I'm sure Anton will have a say in what he wants as well, of where and when.

TE: "We should probably also mention that besides the soundtrack of original Joy Division music and incidental music there will be another soundtrack of bands covering Joy Division. So we didn't want this to be a perfunctory thing, y'know, 'while we're doing a movie about Ian Curtis and Joy Division so we might as well do, y'know, a cover album', as it would be insanely cheesy. So what we're doing is, giving bands a song and giving them three days to record it. And that's it. Because we want to recreate the urgency of how the music was recorded in the first place. And similarly we've found so far that they're aren't any bands that aren't interested in doing it. So that's actually fairly exciting part of the project as well."

AHW: "One more little story because this is my one input here so har has been because Moby is one of the great supporters of Joy Division and whatever else, because Moby wanted to be involved, and was involved in the other film, he was regarded as a pariah by Todd and Orian. Which isn't very fair. And I objected to that. I felt that of all the great rock 'n' roll stars in the world, the person who has most consistently adored, loved, and championed Joy Division, is in fact Mr Moby and one of the finest moments in my life, one of the most exhilarating moments was going out on a very hot Los Angeles evening, up into the hills above Byron Boulevard to the Universal Theatre with my partner, going to watch 'Heat' the De Niro whatever movie and sitting there, enjoying this wonderful movie and suddenly, halfway through, De Niro gets in the car and some music comes booming out of the thing and it's so impressive and I went 'My god! This is one of my songs. Fucking hell!!' And it's one of the most exhilarating moments of my life and many years later it was suggested by Mr Kruschetti (?), Mr Corgan and Moby who found they were playing with New Order that they do the same song, 'New Dawn Fades', in a concert, to which the members of Joy Division on stage said, 'Yeah, alright. How does it go?' and had to be guided through 'New Dawn Fades' by Kruschetti, Corgan and Moby. Anyway, Orian and Todd were very nice about it. They said fine. You like Moby, you like Moby's support for Joy Division, we can get him back on board if you want. And I talked to his manager last night. That makes a change for me from working on 24 Hour Party People, because anything I complained about and wanted changed on 24 Hour Party People, I got told to fuck off! This time I'm having a much better experience."

TE: "Again, not to seem too idiotic about it we do feel insanely lucky to have this assembled group of people at the very beginning of this process. And I just can't imagine a better way to be making this film."

AHW: "And again, this is one of my personal pieces of revenge of Rob (Gretton) because, having Anton do this film, many years ago, in the late Eighties, I was desperate to bring out 'Atmosphere' again, and we had to do a video and it occurred to me that if we did a Joy Division video which was nine years later we would have to use photographs. And there were only two sets of photographs, the Cummins photographs and the Corbijn photographs, and because Kevin is a miserable fucking City supporting wanker I couldn't bear to have to deal with Kevin and I love Anton very much, I asked Anton to do the video. And Rob told me that that the he hated it and the group hated it, that it was fucking shite, sanctimonious bollocks, and that he hated the whole fucking thing. And for twelve years I laboured under the apprehension that I had done a very bad job here even though to me having Anton, someone who took the photographs use his own work, having honesty about it, and it was only one year ago I found out that only Rob hated it and the rest of the group fucking loved the 'Atmosphere' video. So there you are.

Voice in assembled throng: "I liked it."

AHW: "You loved it. There you are, everyone loved it except fucking Rob."

TE: "Interestingly enough, Ian was a City fan and I'm pretty sure Matt's already been in the City magazine, so we may have sort of a football..."

AHW: "Debbie, was he a City fan?"

DC: "Yes."

AHW: "To be fair to Mr Gretton and Mr Pickering, Mr Pickering famous for apparently writing lots of great pop songs for M-People, the greatest song they ever covered was a song called 'Swales Out' which they chanted every other match.

Question: [to DC] "This must be quite an emotional moment, finally reaching the stage when you can look forward. Or is it?"

DC: "It's very exciting after all these years. The film thing's been going on for a long time. There was a time when I thought that it was better not to do it at all - but we've found the right people now."

TE: "Well thank you all so much for coming. You'll be seeing a lot of us."

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Thanks to Michael Eastwood, Richard Bellia, Tom Clarke and Kate Butler.